Got something to say about cyclist/roller blader/skater right-of-way vs. pedestrian right-of-way around the Green Lake loop? Feel free to sound off in the comments to this post. To get you started:
From the Green Lake Archives:
The Interlaken
November 9, 1907WHAT IS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT?
Green Lake, Nov. 7, 1907.To the Editor:
The writer would respectfully call attention to the use of the sidewalks in the Green Lake section for bicycle paths and coastways. The privilege is abused to such an extent that it would seem pedestrians may use the walks only at the sufferance of those who appropriate them for high-speed purposes. For example:
A biker comes tearing along a narrow walk as if going for the doctor. He doesn’t make any particular effort to run the pedestrian down, but he announces through the rushing crescendo of his bell that he would appreciate the right of way. This gracious consideration is acknowledged in due form by the pedestrian, who steps off the sidewalk into a mudhole. Etiquette on this point is so unquestionably fixed and observed in the Green Lake section that a nonconformist runs the risk of being considered a boor — or having his anatomy disarranged.
Another object of deference is the small boy hurtling down the sidewalked slope on coasting apparatus. Just now the prevailing type of coaster used in Green Lake is a four-wheeled vehicle constructed on the lines of a dachshund, long drown out and low down. The popularity of this particular breed of wagon is doubltess due to the assumption that if it hits a pedestrian who fails to “clear,” his legs will be broken off no higher up than below the knees. “Clear!” is the imperative “pass”-word. Anyone knows his grammar on this point. Why, the other day I observed a woman, white-haired and feeble, step off the walk and totter into the street in obeyance of this command.
It is about time for people without “wheels” to get together and demand saner use of sidewalks.
HOMER O. CAMPBELL.
And, from SeattlePI.com’s Seattle 911: A Police Blog, dated February 27, 2009:
Q: Are people legally required to follow the Green Lake path instructions?
A: No.
Parks and Recreation Department spokeswoman Dewey Potter said the path courtesy code “is a guideline, and users generally use peer pressure to enforce it.”
Sometimes people take that too far.
On Feb. 5, a woman in her 30s told police a man yelled at her while walking, saying she should get to the right, according to a police report. The woman said he needed help – then he circled her three times.
The man asked “if she wants to come to blows,” swore at her then put his bike down and took a fighting posture while blocking her path, according to the report. The woman, who reported the incident more than a week later, wasn’t hurt and the man wasn’t found by police.
That’s not the way to handle someone not following the Green Lake courtesy code, city officials say.
If people don’t follow the signs, they recommend a courteous reminder.
“The Green Lake path configuration is that there is a soft surface closest to the lake; a mixed use trail of asphalt marked with an inner lane for pedestrians; and an outer lane for wheels-bicycles and skates,” Potter said. “The outer lane was supposed to be one way clockwise only, but the soft surface and inner lane were to be two way use.”
Here are details from the lake’s courtesy code, designed by the parks department. The inner asphalt path is 2.8 miles; the perimeter path is 3.2 miles, according to the parks department.
Walkers and joggers are asked to use the inside lane and travel clockwise, facing bicyclists.
Cyclists and skaters are asked to use the outside lane (farthest from the lake) and travel counterclockwise.
They’re also asked to keep to the right, yield to pedestrians and cycle or skate in single file.”The outer lane was supposed to be one way clockwise only, but the soft surface and inner lane were to be two way use,” Potter said.
Posted by Casey McNerthney at February 27, 2009 12:06 a.m.
[SeattlePI.com]
Update: Thank you, Robert, for pointing out that there is an excellent Almost Live! clip that rounds this post off. Unfortunately, YouTube has disabled the code for embedding it … but you can view it over on youtube.com by clicking here.
where is the almost live clip?
Fast bikes don't safely mix well with a busy pedestrian path.
They should extend the outer bike lanes to go all the way around the lake, and signs should direct fast bike traffic there.
Currently, you can ride streets and bike paths clockwise around the lake, although the merge onto Aurora is a bit dodgey. Circling the lake counter-clockwise by bike is pretty much impossible without driving through pedestrians.
We are lucky enough to have access to a beautiful bike path that runs for miles and miles, and it'll take you about 10 minutes (tops) to ride there from Green Lake. It's called the Burke-Gilman Trail. Maybe you've heard of it? There's absolutely no reason to ride your bike in tiny circles around Green Lake — why would you ever want to do such a thing?
Too bad the city wasted all that money on that silly gate, almost unused entrance walkway, and rarely used seats in the NE corner. It's all too typical of city planning: Too much art and too little good sense. That money would have been better spent for:
1. Creating a top-notch jogging trail on the outer borders of the park in place of the current narrow dirt and gravel one.
2. Creating a paved, wheels-only path outside the current paved walkway. The path could wander in and out to best fit the terrain.
That'd allow the current path to be for foot traffic and strollers only, reducing the crowding on it when the weather is good. People go to Green Lake to move and the park should reflect that.
And finally, I'd like to offer a word in praise for those who wheel around the lake. The vast majority follow the CCW rule and travel at a reasonable speed with due care. The problem isn't their behavior. It's simply that the current pathway isn't up to the traffic. We need more paths rather than more rules.
I don't bike around Green Lake, except in the bike lanes in the street. I do find that pedestrians often have no regard for the existence of the “wheels” path, and will walk 4-5 abreast so that they overflow the center line, or even just take up the bike lane exclusively. This is equally discourteous.
[...] My Green Lake • The Green Lake Archives: pedestrians risk having … [...]
peeb, by the same token, we have access to miles of lovely walking paths only a few minutes' walk away in Woodland Park. Why would you want to walk in tiny circles around Green Lake — why would you ever want to do such a thing? See how silly you sound? Green Lake should be for walkers, joggers, strollers, bikers and rollerbladers. If we stay in our lanes, everyone can have a great time.
I think part of the problem is the use of a yellow lane line to divide the mixed use path. In highway engineering, a solid yellow line is customarily used to divide traffic moving in opposite directions. Casual park users entering the mixed use path from various ingress points often aren't within sight of one of the infrequently-placed pavement icons or green signs that designate the foot/wheel traffic lanes naturally assume they should keep to the right of the yellow line. Since most traffic goes counterclockwise around the lake, this puts them in the bike/skate path. I wish the City would use a different divider lane color, and maybe use Bott's dots or the occasional physical barrier (pylons or something of that ilk) to reinforce the distinction. More frequent signs or icons painted on the surface would help too. Both would cost less than creating a new path co-axial with the current one. I suppose we could also look at having designated pedestrian-only park times, say on weekends, though I hate to be so restrictive. I agree with those who have posted that the current path width isn't up to the traffic load on weekends.
Unless you're riding a tricycle or a bike with streamers on the handlebars and training wheels, or you're over the age of 65, there are a million other, better, smarter places to ride your bike. End o' story. The funniest are the people in full cycling kits on the inside paved path at Green Lake, trying to look all serious and like they're working really hard. What an effing joke.
Wow, Get a life, you sure know how to elevate the discourse above the juvenile flame wars one sees at sports fan sites, Free Republic, etc. I’m sure your thoughtful, fact-centered analysis of this topic will win numerous converts to your side, and foster a spirit of neighborhood pride and collaboration in our community that’s unprecedented in the Seattle Area. You should be as proud of yourself for these accomplishments as you undoubtedly are for having chosen a screen name that perfectly encapsulates what you have to offer to the rest of society.
I think part of the problem is the use of a yellow lane line to divide the mixed use path. In highway engineering, a solid yellow line is customarily used to divide traffic moving in opposite directions. Casual park users entering the mixed use path from various ingress points often aren't within sight of one of the infrequently-placed pavement icons or green signs that designate the foot/wheel traffic lanes naturally assume they should keep to the right of the yellow line. Since most traffic goes counterclockwise around the lake, this puts them in the bike/skate path. I wish the City would use a different divider lane color, and maybe use Bott's dots or the occasional physical barrier (pylons or something of that ilk) to reinforce the distinction. More frequent signs or icons painted on the surface would help too. Both would cost less than creating a new path co-axial with the current one. I suppose we could also look at having designated pedestrian-only park times, say on weekends, though I hate to be so restrictive. I agree with those who have posted that the current path width isn't up to the traffic load on weekends.
Unless you're riding a tricycle or a bike with streamers on the handlebars and training wheels, or you're over the age of 65, there are a million other, better, smarter places to ride your bike. End o' story. The funniest are the people in full cycling kits on the inside paved path at Green Lake, trying to look all serious and like they're working really hard. What an effing joke.
Wow, Get a life, you sure know how to elevate the discourse above the juvenile flame wars one sees at sports fan sites, Free Republic, etc. I’m sure your thoughtful, fact-centered analysis of this topic will win numerous converts to your side, and foster a spirit of neighborhood pride and collaboration in our community that’s unprecedented in the Seattle Area. You should be as proud of yourself for these accomplishments as you undoubtedly are for having chosen a screen name that perfectly encapsulates what you have to offer to the rest of society.